# Nationalité: "Ref. Russe"

**URL:** <https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/nationalite-ref-russe/28255>\
**Category:** Karten aus Drancy\
**Created:** [8. Mai 2025 um 14:58 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/nationalite-ref-russe/28255 "2025-05-08T14:58:07Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![arielle](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/arielle/32/38562_2.png) [@arielle](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/arielle)\
**Post date:** [8. Mai 2025 um 14:58 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/nationalite-ref-russe/28255/1 "2025-05-08T14:58:07Z")

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![Document from the Arolsen Archives with the ID: 133735762](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/arolsen_archives/original/3X/e/b/ebd169a29702f72a0d7bd50ee2d998d7ec84ba6a.jpeg)

- **Document ID:** 133735762  
- **Document Collection:** 7.12 Karten aus dem franz�sischen Internierungslager Drancy  

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# Discussion Question
Nationalité: „Ref. Russe“

Asked by @arielle

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**Author:** ![arielle](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/arielle/32/38562_2.png) [@arielle](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/arielle)\
**Post date:** [8. Mai 2025 um 14:59 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/nationalite-ref-russe/28255/2 "2025-05-08T14:59:37Z")

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I got this („Ref. Russe“) the second time now on Drancy-cards. Should I take up „Russe“ or „Ref. Russe“, and what does the „Ref“ mean? Thanks

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**Author:** ![routebleue](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/routebleue/32/53115_2.png) [@routebleue](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/routebleue)\
**Post date:** [8. Mai 2025 um 18:11 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/nationalite-ref-russe/28255/3 "2025-05-08T18:11:32Z")

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[edit]  
It actually seems to be the abbreviation for „réfugié/réfugiée´“ . Flüchtling /refugee.  
[![](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/arolsen_archives/original/3X/7/d/7dca4c272d06c87cf67f28a46ad6d5c026f1df66.png) ](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/arolsen_archives/original/3X/7/d/7dca4c272d06c87cf67f28a46ad6d5c026f1df66.png)  
([source](https://ressources.memorialdelashoah.org/notice.php?q=identifiant_origine:(FRMEMSH040870785168)))

In the original Drancy transport list his nationality is given as „indét.“ (indéterminé/not determined)  
Actually he was born in Poland, so „Russian refugee“ would not be correct. (Of course there may always be incorrect entries in these lists and cards, see the spelling of Mr. Dobiecki’s place of birth.)

In any case, we always enter everything as it is written in the document, so here „Réf. Russe“  
Kind regards!

Leizer Abraham DOBIECKI, born in Zdunska Wola (PL) on 05.05.1900  
He died in Auschwitz on 29.07.1942, together with his wife Ruchla née JAKUBOWICZ (\*15.05.1902, Tomaszow (PL),

[yadvashem](https://collections.yadvashem.org/en/names/13994389)  
[legifrance](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000036231049)