# ? "II" - Baruch GRÜNBERG

**URL:** <https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842>\
**Category:** Schreibstubenkarten aus Buchenwald\
**Created:** [5. Juli 2025 um 09:39 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842 "2025-07-05T09:39:57Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 13\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![routebleue](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/routebleue/32/53115_2.png) [@routebleue](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/routebleue)\
**Post date:** [5. Juli 2025 um 09:39 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/1 "2025-07-05T09:39:57Z")

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![Document from the Arolsen Archives with the ID: 6022142](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/arolsen_archives/original/3X/f/5/f51a1ea3ecf950c480c0f2e6bc7223cd04a92fec.jpeg)

- **Document ID:** 6022142  
- **Document Collection:** 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten  
- **Link to Online Archive:** [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6022142](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6022142)  

?

# Discussion Question
? „II“ - Baruch GRÜNBERG

Asked by @routebleue

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**Author:** ![routebleue](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/routebleue/32/53115_2.png) [@routebleue](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/routebleue)\
**Post date:** [5. Juli 2025 um 09:41 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/2 "2025-07-05T09:41:12Z")

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The Roman numeral “II” sometimes appears alone in the upper right corner (= without reference to anything, such as “Lg.II / Lagerstufe II” and without a date). - see [example here](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6585219)

I have ignored it so far. Maybe it should be entered in „Labor detail/ Kommando“ or „Block number“?  
If yes, what does it stand for?  
@mareike.hennies

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**Author:** ![mally](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/mally/32/37511_2.png) [@mally](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/mally)\
**Post date:** [5. Juli 2025 um 22:01 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/3 "2025-07-05T22:01:33Z")

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here are some more cards with II, At first I thought it referred to the [Gustloff-Werk II](https://www.buchenwald.de/geschichte/historischer-ort/konzentrationslager/ruestungswerk-gw-ii), since it’s located right next to the camp, but unfortunately that doesn’t quite fit. See Paul Halma has a II on his card, but 1939 its to early as the factory was build 1942/1943 according to the source above.

> [@Julien Andre #belgian](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/julien-andre-belgian/29807):
>
> Document ID: 5430732 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5430732](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5430732) ?Discussion QuestionJulien Andre #belgianAsked by @mally

> [@Mojzesz Malicki #polish #jew](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/mojzesz-malicki-polish-jew/29775):
>
> Document ID: 6554703 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6554703](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6554703) ?Discussion QuestionMojzesz Malicki #polish #jewAsked by @mally

> [@Paul HALAMA](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/paul-halama/29792):
>
> In der rechten unteren Ecke: Heißt das „verstorben“ (27.11.1939)? Document ID: 6055329 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6055329](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6055329) ?Discussion QuestionPaul HALAMA Asked by @sicl

edit: new entry:

> [@Chil JANKELEWICZ #polish #jew](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/chil-jankelewicz-polish-jew/30196):
>
> Document ID: 6169399 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6169399](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6169399) ?Discussion QuestionChil JANKELEWICZ #polish #jewAsked by @sicl Yad Vashem

edit: new entry:

> [@Emile ROULEY #french @velthove1](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/emile-rouley-french-velthove1/30314):
>
> Document ID: 6962147 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6962147](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6962147) ?Discussion QuestionEmile ROULEY #french @velthove1Asked by @u.sch

edit: new entry:

> [@Frigyes ROSE #hungarian #jew](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/frigyes-rose-hungarian-jew/30352):
>
> Document ID: 6946046 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6946046](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6946046) ?Discussion QuestionFrigyes ROSE #hungarian #jewAsked by @Chanix

edit: new entry:

> [@Leon BERNARD #french #jew](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/leon-bernard-french-jew/30355):
>
> Document ID: 5525433 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5525433](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5525433) ?Discussion QuestionLeon BERNARD #french #jewAsked by @Chanix

edit: new entry:

> [@Helmut SAMUELSOHN #german #jew](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/helmut-samuelsohn-german-jew/30402):
>
> Document ID: 7002192 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/7002192](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/7002192) ?Discussion QuestionHelmut SAMUELSOHN #german #jewAsked by @sicl

edit: new entry:

> [@Willi Blau #jew](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/willi-blau-jew/30419):
>
> Document ID: 5553407 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5553407](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5553407) ?Discussion QuestionWilli Blau #jewAsked by @mally

edit: new entry: (Saal: Lager II)

> [@Piotr Kot #polish](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/piotr-kot-polish/30450):
>
> Document ID: 6344780 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6344780](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6344780) ?Discussion QuestionPiotr Kot #polishAsked by @mally

new entry:

> [@György GARAMI #Hungary](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/gyoergy-garami-hungary/30481):
>
> Document ID: 5921625 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5921625](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5921625) ?Discussion QuestionGyörgy GARAMI #HungaryAsked by @GHA György GARAMI, b. 13.12.1925 in Nyiregyhaza, Hungary The son of Janas and Paula née HERCZ Arrested 10.05.1944 in Györgyos In Auschwitz from 06.06.1944 In Buchenwald from 18.06.1944 with prisoner nr 52501 In Wille …

new entry: (Müller, Arnold)

> [@Https://gedenkbuch.karlsruhe.de/namen/3063 viele Daten und Fotos](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/https-gedenkbuch-karlsruhe-de-namen-3063-viele-daten-und-fotos/30485):
>
> Document ID: 6672761 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6672761](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6672761) ?Discussion Question[Arnold Müller Gedenkbuch für die Karlsruher Juden](https://gedenkbuch.karlsruhe.de/namen/3063) viele Daten und FotosAsked by @mschaafberg

new entry:

> [@Marius BERTHON #French](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/marius-berthon-french/30517):
>
> Document ID: 5528840 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5528840](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5528840) ?Discussion QuestionMarius BERTHON #FrenchAsked by @GHA Marius BERTHON, b. 02.11.1914 in Saint-Etienne, Loire, France Deported from Compiègne to Neuengamme on 28.07.1944 with prisoner nr 40165 (subcamp Breme-Farge?) In Buchenwald on 23.03.1945 with prisoner nr 136923 and …

new: entry:

> [@Ferencz BOGDAN #hungarian Verschiedene Personen?](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ferencz-bogdan-hungarian/30579):
>
> Document ID: 5566482Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_SchreibstubenkartenLink to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5566482?Discussion](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5566482?Discussion) QuestionFerencz BOGDAN #hungarianAsked by @sicl

new: entry:

> [@Gjula EHRENREICH #Buchenwald Lager II](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/gjula-ehrenreich-buchenwald-lager-ii/30650):
>
> Document ID: 5810393 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5810393](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5810393) ?Discussion QuestionGjula EHRENREICH #Buchenwald Lager IIAsked by @u.sch

new entry: (Russ, Boruch)

> [@Was bedeutet das Datum unten rechts? Habe das schon häufig gesehen wenn die Person verstorben ist](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/was-bedeutet-das-datum-unten-rechts-habe-das-schon-haeufig-gesehen-wenn-die-person-verstorben-ist/30646):
>
> Document ID: 6980432 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6980432](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6980432) ?Discussion QuestionWas bedeutet das Datum unten rechts? Habe das schon häufig gesehen wenn die Person verstorben ist.Asked by @chiiru

new entry:

> [@Stanislaw KLIBER # Buchenwald Lager II](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/stanislaw-kliber-buchenwald-lager-ii/30647):
>
> DeepLink: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6285485](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6285485)[https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/search/person/6285481?s=135788&t=1671947&p=0](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/search/person/6285481?s=135788&t=1671947&p=0)

new entry: (Saal 61)

> [@Meijer de BOER #dutch #jew](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/meijer-de-boer-dutch-jew/30708):
>
> Document ID: 5565422 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5565422](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5565422) ?Discussion QuestionMeijer de BOER #dutch #jewAsked by @velthove1

new entry:

> [@Pierre ANKER #french @velthove #Buchenwald Lager II #eh. KGF](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/pierre-anker-french-velthove-buchenwald-lager-ii-eh-kgf/30771):
>
> Document ID: 5436001 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5436001](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5436001) ?Discussion QuestionPierre ANKER #french @velthove #Buchenwald Lager II #eh. KGFAsked by @u.sch

new entry (Lipzer Josef) (saal 61)

> [@Wie gebe ich an, dass die Person nach 1945 verstoreben ist?](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/wie-gebe-ich-an-dass-die-person-nach-1945-verstoreben-ist/29989):
>
> Document ID: 6498876 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6498876](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/6498876) ?Discussion QuestionWie gebe ich an, dass die Person nach 1945 verstoreben ist?Asked by @dfp

new entry:

> [@Beniek Checinski #LG II](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/beniek-checinski-lg-ii/30326):
>
> Document ID: 5668016 Document Collection: 1-1-5-3\_Buchenwald\_Schreibstubenkarten Link to Online Archive: [https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5668016](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/de/document/5668016) ?Discussion QuestionBeniek Checinski #LG IIAsked by @u.sch

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**Author:** ![routebleue](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/routebleue/32/53115_2.png) [@routebleue](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/routebleue)\
**Post date:** [6. Juli 2025 um 12:17 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/4 "2025-07-06T12:17:02Z")

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I also thought of a Buchenwald Kommando, followed by a Roman numeral (like “Baukommando II” “Martha II”), but then why didn’t they write down the complete name or at least added a letter?

Here is a l[ist of Buchenwald Arbeitskommandos](https://eguide.arolsen-archives.org/archiv/transferdokument/347) (as of 01.07.1943) and their numbers as they appear on the „Arbeitseinsatzkarte/Labor assignment card“ (source: [e-guide](https://eguide.arolsen-archives.org/archiv/anzeige/arbeitseinsatzkarte-aus-dem-kz-buchenwald)) But I doubt that a cross-check is worthwhile on this issue. Maybe it is just a Lagerstufe II that has slipped there. ..  
But I’ll still keep an eye on these cards for a while.

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**Author:** ![mareike.hennies](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/mareike.hennies/32/32005_2.png) [@mareike.hennies](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/mareike.hennies)\
**Post date:** [8. Juli 2025 um 14:22 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/5 "2025-07-08T14:22:57Z")

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Hello,

that is a good question, we are not sure what it stands for. But we will look into it and let you know if we find an answer. Thank you for pointing it out.

Best,  
Mareike

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**Author:** ![sicl](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/sicl/32/40730_2.png) [@sicl](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/sicl)\
**Post date:** [8. Juli 2025 um 15:13 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/6 "2025-07-08T15:13:46Z")

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I also registered it under „Kommando“.

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**Author:** ![routebleue](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/routebleue/32/53115_2.png) [@routebleue](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/routebleue)\
**Post date:** [8. Juli 2025 um 16:18 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/7 "2025-07-08T16:18:45Z")

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> [@sicl](#):
>
> I also registered it under „Kommando“.

I’m a bit confused 🤔  
Do we enter „II“ anywhere?  
_(sorry, stehe gerade irgendwie auf der Leitung…)_

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**Author:** ![routebleue](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/routebleue/32/53115_2.png) [@routebleue](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/routebleue)\
**Post date:** [9. Juli 2025 um 09:48 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/8 "2025-07-09T09:48:15Z")

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[In this list](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/en/document/5284773) „L II“ appears in the right column along with other subcamps (or so it seems…)

 ![grafik](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/arolsen_archives/original/3X/1/e/1e207c4811eeb2f19d839049e95585f2961e57b2.jpeg)  
[This is the corresponding card](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/arolsen_archives/original/3X/c/e/ce68df71eb0e24e726432b971a42a2fe0b4f2dbc.jpeg) of Werner HERTOG with „II“ noted in the upper right corner.

So @sicl is most likely right to enter „II“ in „Labor detail/Kommando.“, and I’ll do that, too.  
@mareike.hennies, do you agree?

What could „L“ stand for in this context? - [edit, see below] ~~Maybe „[Lippstadt](https://www.aussenlager-buchenwald.de/details.html?camp=52) II“ ?~~

Have a nice day everybody!

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**Author:** ![mally](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/mally/32/37511_2.png) [@mally](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/mally)\
**Post date:** [9. Juli 2025 um 10:14 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/9 "2025-07-09T10:14:29Z")

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according to the source its a woman camp, but there is nothing else that seems to fit.

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**Author:** ![routebleue](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/routebleue/32/53115_2.png) [@routebleue](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/routebleue)\
**Post date:** [9. Juli 2025 um 10:53 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/10 "2025-07-09T10:53:34Z")

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_ooops, wer lesen kann, ist klar im Vorteil! - Danke!_

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**Author:** ![elke.helmentag](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/elke.helmentag/32/65_2.png) [@elke.helmentag](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/elke.helmentag)\
**Post date:** [9. Juli 2025 um 11:27 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/11 "2025-07-09T11:27:32Z")

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Hallo routebleue,  
I agree with you and would enter it as you said.  
But most of all, thank you for the further research.

As for the meaning of „L II“, I’m not sure if it’s a Kommando. But we will take a closer look.

Thank you all for the great exchange!

Best,  
Elke

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**Author:** ![sicl](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/sicl/32/40730_2.png) [@sicl](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/sicl)\
**Post date:** [16. Juli 2025 um 20:03 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/12 "2025-07-16T20:03:37Z")

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![grafik](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/arolsen_archives/original/3X/5/5/55b5331e290cdea7a58eaa506f67908355cde257.jpeg)  
Zur Ausgangskarte von Baruch GRÜNBERG findet sich auch ein Listeneintrag mit LII (siehe oben).

Ebenso zu Chil JANKELEWICZ:

 ![grafik](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/arolsen_archives/original/3X/f/e/fe5222a82b80efac3a9da4e13e2ecda1da4ffa1c.jpeg)

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**Author:** ![mally](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/talk.arolsen-archives.org/mally/32/37511_2.png) [@mally](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/u/mally)\
**Post date:** [24. Juli 2025 um 11:39 UTC](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/ii-baruch-gruenberg/29842/13 "2025-07-24T11:39:33Z")

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![IMG_0532](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/arolsen_archives/original/3X/5/4/540e7dbe645a4115609b7ae4419840a4c2d5ecb9.jpeg)  
All cards with a II above are from people who died, so could it be like a room; „saal“ or building in the „Krankenhaus Bau“ complex. Found [this](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/en/document/5553410) card with L II noted in „Saal“  
Lookes it up on the Buchenwald [map](https://talk.arolsen-archives.org/t/lageplan-buchenwald-mit-blocknummern/2394), but could not find it, so its just a guess.